Curse

Bryant Again · Feb 21, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

It is very easy to point the finger at Ursan Blessing and declare that it is the sole destructor of your beloved PvE, however if you were to do that, you would be wrong. If this is your claim, I have bad news for you: a combination of consumables, other PvE skills and heroes are the source of your PvE woes, you just don't understand it.

I'm not saying it's the downward spiral, but more the last, huge, glaring, iron nail in the coffin. It's ANet's way of saying "#%@* it," and that never leaves a good impression on the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

I've given up on Guild Wars, but not yet on ArenaNet.

"Giving up" is part of the reason why UB came to existence in the first place, and since Guild Wars is still going to be around when GW2 hits I'd rather they leave it a quality game.

I've made an example many times before about why it's not always a "good" thing that players play together: You could, and probably will get players to PUG if you made it so 10000k would drop each time you scored a kill in an all-human party. People playing together? Sure, but for what reasons and at what cost to the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

A way of solving this would be to enable the PvE skills only in elite areas and Hard Mode.

I feel like that would add more to the problem, since the elite areas and hard mode are what're supposed to test your skill in the game, not provide the same if not easier level of difficulty of normal mode.

But do you know what I'm not in total disagreement with? A difficulty slider. This way players can come to better conclusions and knowledge of their builds and what works/doesn't work in an areas. Of course there would have to be a few limitations on it (maybe decreased drop rates?) but it'd be a faaar much better learning tool than Ursan.

And sorry to take a snip there, Jos. I liked your post, but just took that little portion to bring out a comment.

Creeping Carl · Feb 21, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Posted from a different forum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmus

Ahhh, Guild Wars. A game with a complex skill system where you pick and choose and create a build from hundreds of skills from a primary and secondary profession.

The possibilities of builds are almost endless! The creative and ingenious builds that people have come up with! The fun and challen...

But....what's this?!?!

A skill that makes a build for me with a click of a button? And it gives me armor AND health?!? And I can do massive damage as well? What's that you say? ANY profession can use it and play like a uber damage dealing tank?!?

Well, screw the whole skill system then! I'll just take UB! Who cares about PVE balance! I didnt like thinking anyway. And I say F-- you to everyone who doesnt like it. Who cares that it defeats the whole purpose of the game design, I'm having fun!!!

pOmrAkkUn · Feb 21, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I read first 4-5 pages and my idea is like this

UB = car or gun
Non-UB = walk or sword

I saw many ppl crying about other ppl always want to go to some places by a car not by walking like before (which is require strenght, preparation etc.. )

And same idea ppl crying about other ppl using guns to kill things. Wow that is easy and fast and they hate that bcos they want to use swords to kill things slowly but need more skills.

IMHO many ppl don't have much time to spend on " a game " they just want to relax from thier day job etc.. so what's wrong if they want to play something simple and easy?

Yes, I agree that is hard to find Non-UB pugs in Eilte area now, but from this tread I saw many ppl who don't want to use UB and prefer to play in normal way.

Why don't u guys group up together?
same as real life u have a club for ppl who interrested in many different things.

If u want to play with a sword not a gun just do it with ppl who has same idea with u.

wraithe · Feb 21, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Posted from a different forum:

"I'm Having Fun" last three words of your quote..isnt that what the game is all about?
how ever you do it as long as you live by those words...

enter_the_zone · Feb 21, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by wraithe

"I'm Having Fun" last three words of your quote..isnt that what the game is all about?
how ever you do it as long as you live by those words...

QFT

@ Creeping Carl. As if the Obsi Tank/Nuker ele/Heal monks trinity was any better? Tell you what, get a DoA or UW clearance pug as a mesmer or ranger.

Oh, wait.

Yes, Ursan effectively reduces everyone to a high dmg warrior. But the community brought that on themselves by the widespread adoption of cookie cutter builds which excluded all but 3 classes. But Ursan isn't even massively imbalanced without consumables. DoA NM, Ursan, no consumables, got totally owned.

the_jos · Feb 21, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

I'm not saying it's the downward spiral, but more the last, huge, glaring, iron nail in the coffin.

Understand what you say but don't agree.

UB is the result of various broken things in the game:

1. Lack of teaming possibilities: Players are spread on 3 continents and 1 expansion without possibility to easily team up outside the active outpost.
2. Titles: Players are not only spread on those continents, they are also doing different things. Making it even harder to team up.
3. Heroes: Solves teaming problem introduced by titles but creates new one.
It's way faster and easier to build a team of 2 humans and 6 heroes than to build a team with 8 humans. Specially random players (PUG).
4a. Mobs/AI: Making things more difficult = adding more foes. Hence putting certain professions out of the playing field.
4b. Tank/Nuker/Healer mindset: Applies to certain areas, specially the elite ones. People want proven builds. Linked to 4a.
5. A lot of players play for cash/prestige and not for fun. Also tightly linked to the titles problem mentioned in 2.

When looking at those things I'd say UB is more likely a normal nail in the coffin.
It's just because people look at it with a microscope that it looks enormous.

Angelic Upstart · Feb 21, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Understand what you say but don't agree.

UB is the result of various broken things in the game:

1. Lack of teaming possibilities: Players are spread on 3 continents and 1 expansion without possibility to easily team up outside the active outpost.
2. Titles: Players are not only spread on those continents, they are also doing different things. Making it even harder to team up.
3. Heroes: Solves teaming problem introduced by titles but creates new one.
It's way faster and easier to build a team of 2 humans and 6 heroes than to build a team with 8 humans. Specially random players (PUG).
4a. Mobs/AI: Making things more difficult = adding more foes. Hence putting certain professions out of the playing field.
4b. Tank/Nuker/Healer mindset: Applies to certain areas, specially the elite ones. People want proven builds. Linked to 4a.
5. A lot of players play for cash/prestige and not for fun. Also tightly linked to the titles problem mentioned in 2.

When looking at those things I'd say UB is more likely a normal nail in the coffin.
It's just because people look at it with a microscope that it looks enormous.

That is about right on the money, i still think though that UB is an overpowered piece of shit skill.

Avarre · Feb 21, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

QFT

@ Creeping Carl. As if the Obsi Tank/Nuker ele/Heal monks trinity was any better? Tell you what, get a DoA or UW clearance pug as a mesmer or ranger.

Oh, wait.

Yes, Ursan effectively reduces everyone to a high dmg warrior. But the community brought that on themselves by the widespread adoption of cookie cutter builds which excluded all but 3 classes. But Ursan isn't even massively imbalanced without consumables. DoA NM, Ursan, no consumables, got totally owned.

Nobody serious at the game ran trinity builds unless they were somewhat novice. The fact that much stronger builds were in existence, much of which could be boiled down to cookie-cutter and could fit any profession, shows that there was no need to add UB to aid pugging.

Not that these builds don't have their problematic points.

Perkunas · Feb 21, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Let me see if I am understanding some of what is said up and down through this thread.

"An overpowered skill that takes no brains ruling the game. Making all vanquishing titles like "Yeah Right""

Sounds like "Legendary Survivor" Yeah right, you HFFF and Killroy it.

People are afraid that their titles with be cheapened. So what, only you know how you played it anyway. Don't worry about how other people play the game.

angmar_nite · Feb 21, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

People are also afraid in in game economy dies...

Bryant Again · Feb 21, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

But Ursan isn't even massively imbalanced without consumables. DoA NM, Ursan, no consumables, got totally owned.

That's definantly not the case. Consumables are a buffer in case you make a mistake. If you don't suck, you don't need them. If you do suck, they want save you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

When looking at those things I'd say UB is more likely a normal nail in the coffin.
It's just because people look at it with a microscope that it looks enormous.

Likewise: I understand, but don't agree. All professions have a spot in any area of PvE, it's just that PUGs think otherwise. Heroes, while they do have an impact on people pugging, were ultimately a great and almost necessary addition to the game.

One of my biggest gripes about UB is that it essentially changes entirely the way the game has been played for the past two years and rewards you for it. When you used the "trinity" build you were bringing a lot of risks, and to avoid those risks you had to take it slow and careful - effective, but not efficient. UB is both: It's still powerful in itself and is remarkably easy to use and implement.

Ursan Blessing may make people PUG again, but at the cost of cheapening the entire game.

payne · Feb 21, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

QFT

Tell you what, get a DoA or UW clearance pug as a ranger.

i am going to PML at that comment - you realise its easy as hell to get into a team as a ranger in UW? go do some research at UW clearance (non UB) teams and you'll notice rangers are in alot of teams - seeming as I can always get into a team as a ranger :

fanatic 's faith · Feb 21, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

im for ursan, it lets the weaker professions paticipate in things like urgoz,deep,doa,..

angmar_nite · Feb 21, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic 's faith

im for ursan, it lets the weaker professions paticipate in things like urgoz,deep,doa,..

Weaker? If people who rolled mesmers and sins wanted to play high armor good health high damage melee classes why didn't they make a warrior. Ursan basically changes your profession. In ursan you are no more a mesmer than an ele in a worm is an ele.

Not to mention i've seen sins tear through Urgoz. And DoA.

zwei2stein · Feb 21, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic 's faith

im for ursan, it lets the weaker professions paticipate in things like urgoz,deep,doa,..

Most of those "Weak" professions are quite insane powerhouses if you l2p.

And those that are not powerhouses have sweet uses. Anyone can tell you that, for example, well played Sin >> Obsi tank.

Creeping Carl · Feb 21, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wraithe

"I'm Having Fun" last three words of your quote..isnt that what the game is all about?
how ever you do it as long as you live by those words...

Fun is a part of the game yes. But having fun and game balance/game design arent mutually exclusive.

Tyla · Feb 21, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by pOmrAkkUn

UB = car or gun
Non-UB = walk or sword

With a car you polute the enviroment (however you spell it) and get no excersise.
With walking you are excersising and not polluting the enviorement.

With a gun you are using up metal and on a limited stock of ammo, even sometimes only wound your target.
With a sword you have infinite swings and can gain a guaranteed kill.

God my spelling fails today!

Lagg · Feb 21, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"Giving up" is part of the reason why UB came to existence in the first place, and since Guild Wars is still going to be around when GW2 hits I'd rather they leave it a quality game.

Restoring this game to its original quality would mean getting rid of Factions, Nightfall and Eye of the North and somehow magically erasing our memories to make it feel new again.

I'd be more than happy if they simply applied some damage control to rectify some of the poor design decisions that were made.

See, I don't blame ArenaNet for making poor decisions. Poor decisions are always better than no decisions. But that doesn't mean that you can't hold true to the original idea.

Even though I and many others think that everything released past Sorrow's Furnace is less-than-Prophecies quality, no one can disagree that Factions, Nightfall and Eye of the North considerably lengthened the game's lifespan. It's just a shame that it happened at the cost of quality and, eventually, at the cost of the very design concepts that made this game great in the first place. Throwing the skillbar overboard with Ursan was just the proverbial drop.

Balthazar, I hate that "proverbial drop" expression.

In hindsight, yes, efforts could probably have been better invested in providing us with more high-level content that doesn't require overpowered PvE skills to be accessible to all (*cough* Realms of the Gods *cough*), but we can't keep complaining about that. What's done is done.

I'm still a believer in ArenaNet's ability to make a great game and I'm sure they'll get back to the roots of Guild Wars with its sequel.

They're welcome to prove me wrong next year.

=DNC=Trucker · Feb 21, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I look at it this way, before you couldn't find a PUG at all, now its all ursan. Not much better, but what can you do.

Risus · Feb 21, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

I find Ursan Blessing to be a great skill. It has made Hard Mode much easier, and I can finally get a HM UW statue in my HoM